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jabster's avatar

What these leftists can't seem to understand is that a failure to maintain order will lead to gosh-honest fascism.

In other words, these "antifascists" are doing exactly what brings on fascism. And they will get it, good and hard.

None of us want that, but that's what this recipe is cooking up.

John Carter's avatar

“And then one day, for no reason at all…”

Tim Rainville's avatar

Gradually always ends suddenly.

Rikard's avatar

Yes!

I've said this many times when having arguments with colleagues when I was teaching pol-sci/soc-sci:

"If you don't want a fascist take-over, don't create a situation where that is the best option for people!"

Well, now the situation is beyond that. We need a full-on military dictatorship and ethnic cleansing: some Mussolini-esque corporatism would just seem quaint and back-to-normal.

John Carter's avatar

Precisely so.

I didn't include it in the essay, but during another conversation with the retired Swedish engineer who was my landlord for a short time, I told him that remigration was necessary if Sweden was going to survive the twenty-first century. He replied that this would surely lead to bloodshed on a vast scale, and was rather shocked when I shrugged at that. You may well be right, I told him, but the alternative is the extinction of your people, and it's not like you haven't shed blood before.

I found the difference in generational mindset fascinating. Many would actually prefer extinction to hurting anyone...

Attila the Unpleasant's avatar

[i]...I found the difference in generational mindset fascinating. [b]Many would actually prefer extinction to hurting anyone...[/b][/i]

Apparently the only people they don't mind hurting is their own. That really, really must be some form of mental illness. I believe it was the writer/commentator Michael Savage who first said that "Liberalism is a mental disorder". How right he was!

John Carter's avatar

It's pretty incredible when you think about it.

Tim Rainville's avatar

As coined by Gad Saad, it's Suicidal Empathy.

BIG WILD MIND MACHINE's avatar

maybe they dont think of you as their own just because you have the same ethnicity. Maybe they hate you for being bigots?

Brigitte's avatar

“I mean, we don’t want to be *rude*…”

Jw's avatar

'Many would actually prefer extinction....'. Not me. Not. Me.

The Catholic Church had a part of the liturgy that proclaims 'peace to people of good will.' I agree with both ends of that logic chain.

Brigitte's avatar

Amen

Ed Leventhal's avatar

I just now registered that our writer here is actually named John Carter! Warlord of Mars. (Hence postcards from Basoom). This was excellent sir. Well written & quite depressing, alas.

Rudolph Rigger's avatar

I (as you know) don't have too many 'analysis chops' when it comes to the forces and pressures shaping society, but I liken what's happening to the condition of stable equilibrium in physics.

In stable equilibrium you have a situation where small perturbations are corrected - there are 'mechanisms' where deviations get pushed back to the neutral point. The classic example is to think of a ball on top of a hill where there's a dip/bowl at the peak. Any small pushes up the side of the bowl and the ball will fall back to the centre of the dip/bowl, with maybe a few oscillations before it settles down.

It kind of feels now that the perturbations have been too severe - and that the ball has been pushed out of the bowl at the top and is heading down the slope of the hill itself.

In other words, the societal mechanisms that used to work and provide stability are no longer effective. Pushing the ball back up the hill and back into the bowl is going to require quite some effort - and probably more than that required to push it out of the bowl at the top in the first place.

That's what it feels like, but I don't really have the tools to firm up on this 'intuition'.

Rikard's avatar

That is a very good image, though.

To put it in SS-terms, the bowl at the top became the entirety of the perspective for our ruling classes between the late 1960s to the 1990s (I'll skip the essay-length wall-of-text on how this came about); thus to them pushing on the ball all the time seemed perfectly fine and dandy - nothing bad could happen. In fact, pushing the ball towards the edge meant progress, since we were moving the ball to a higher position (higher position = more potential energy, if I remember comp. school physics correctly).

That the dip in which the ball is in, is just the top of a hill surrounded by valleys and other hills, was something they refused to see, since they refused to peer beyond the rim (as doing that would prove them wrong, and it is an all too common trait to /not/ look when you know you're going to see something you don't want to see; insert NHS data on Covid/vaccinations/side effects/mortality here f.e.).

Now the ball is rolling down the hill. Returning it to the same dip is impossible, but adding energy to it so it rolls up and onto a new dip is possible (unless that breaks the metaphor).

John Carter's avatar

Solid metaphor.

Lucky Jack's avatar

“Traditions are solutions to problems long since forgotten”

And we’ve chosen to scorn tradition for the best part of 50 years.

I hope the ball is still on the lip and able to return to centre, but I doubt it. I fear it’s been ruined, and to rebuild anything similar will take decades if not centuries, and much blood and treasure.

Michelle VS's avatar

Love that analogy. It’s not just pushing the ball back up the hill but getting it back in the bowl. I think most would think it too exhausting. However, it’s terrifying to think of the alternative.

Tim Rainville's avatar

I would argue that those societal mechanisms are the evolved checks and balances inherent in our foundational institutions. The brilliantly insidious reality is that those institutions were the first to be corrupted. The gates were opened to the barbarians by their own guards.

Grand Mal Twerkin's avatar

Fascism died with Mussolini. It was already dying before Germany steamrolled Italy, its least useful ally. Fearing fascism is like fearing Napoleon will return to power

Rikard's avatar

Do learn something else than Hollywood history, would you dear boy?

Grand Mal Twerkin's avatar

Hollywood never portrayed that

Mitch's avatar

economic fascism is the sea we swim in, but the nationalism part has been removed in a globalist push to homogenize markets worldwide.

User's avatar
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Dec 9
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Grand Mal Twerkin's avatar

I don’t pretend to be a philosopher, unlike… someone I could name

User's avatar
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Dec 10
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Grand Mal Twerkin's avatar

I’m not your friend, and I don’t appreciate your advice

User's avatar
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Dec 8
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Grand Mal Twerkin's avatar

There is no definition. A definition is supposed to finely distinguish a thing, or word, from other things, but the accepted definition fails on several counts. The word, as used, is so imprecise and vague, and the supposed characteristics or hallmarks of fascism apply to so many other dictatorships and regimes, that the definition is completely worthless

User's avatar
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Dec 9
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Grand Mal Twerkin's avatar

That’s exactly my point: “fascism” is a word made up by pseudo intellectuals, or at least deprived of meaning by them. It’s just a political smear, and has been so for nearly a century

BourbonChicken's avatar

You can say that to their faces and they do not care.

We fear tyranny because we don't deserve tyranny.

Matthew Hopkins's avatar

Fascism if it leads to clean White nations again? Is this what I am supposed to be worried about? Fascism or Multikulti Gay Race Communism...hard choice.

Terragrafia's avatar

So, I’m a white American. I’m in a mixed race relationship. My wife is Peruvian. My children are mixed.

Should I fear for my families life and wellbeing due to people like you?

I don’t currently live in Europe, but I might. I’m a scientist, and the nationalists in my country are basically dismantling the scientific establishment. I’ve always wanted to live in a nice walkable town anyway, and a funding offer in Europe would be tempting.

I’m curious the people in this comment section who are essentially arguing for fascism as a means to fix this problem described in the post… would you try to persecute my family if you gained power?

I’m sure the fascist turn will continue picking up some steam. I wonder sometimes if I should just move to Latin America where I might be able to be safe in case the tide turns a bit too much.

Michelle VS's avatar

I’m truly shocked by the totalitarian, racist comments. I think you’re wrong & I wholly sympathize with someone in a mixed race marriage. There’s absolutely nothing with that.

The issue isn’t race, IMHO, it’s about different countries keeping their values without those values being distorted by the immigrants they welcome. It’s a matter of respect. America has incorporated many races. We need to protect, enforce & teach our values- not trash & dump them.

Matthew Hopkins's avatar

Hello. You would not have to fear for your families wellbeing. Simple remigration would be in order. Yes, as a race mixer, you would have no right to live in Europe. Latin America would indeed be a better place for you and yours. I think that your children would benefit from being half-European in that society. A bit of a caste system there, I believe. The mood here in Europe is changing quickly. As you know, the time of “Diversity” is coming to an end. I highly suggest that you prepare accordingly.

Terragrafia's avatar

Your comment doesn’t deter me, but just makes me realize that if another round of putting fascists in their place is in order then I guess it must be done

My grandfather wasn’t afraid of you and I won’t be either

Matthew Hopkins's avatar

We are up for this fight. Race mixing traitor.

Terragrafia's avatar

Good to so easily expose what was underneath the thin veneer of respectability that your type tries to hold up in comment sections such as these

Just a set of totalitarians threatening to imprison or kill anyone of different skin color.

The founders of my country were right, the tree of freedom has to be fertilized with the blood of totalitarians from time to time.

In the end this would be the only reason I’d actually go to war with full conviction. Preventing normal people from being harmed by race-obsessed bastards is one of the foundational values of my culture.

But it’d sure be nice if you guys would rather just f—k off and save me the trouble though.

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Dec 10
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Cleve Johnson's avatar

Here’s my question, did the Muckrakers and Theodore Roosevelt (a historical accident) really end the Gilded Age or did it actually just implode during the Great Depression? In other words, can ordinary people really change things or do we just have to wait until the super wealthy implode? I sometimes think democracy is like those kids strollers with a fake driving wheel while the parents push the stroller from a stick with a handle.

Matthew Hopkins's avatar

The struggle is classist AND racial. European nations for European Folk. Ethno-Nationalism vs Judeo-Globalism

Jim's avatar

Fascism is merely what happens when normal people realize the left will never stop until they're forced to. - https://files.catbox.moe/kaqj3n.png

fiendish_librarian's avatar

I don't know if I "don't want that" necessarily. But I will admit, I'll get a certain amount of satisfaction if it comes about, as I don't think there's another half-way option.

Boulis's avatar

What I’m worried about is that maybe the globalist Left understands just fine that the failure to maintain order will lead to fascism. Maybe that failure is a feature of their politics and not a bug. After all, the original fascist, Mussolini, was a dyed-in-the-wool socialist before going off on his tangent. Fascism is a socialist heresy.

I don’t know, I just picked up Hayek’s Road to Serfdom again and it’s sounding more and more like an old-time Biblical prophecy than it did when I read it more than twenty years ago…

John Carter's avatar

Eh. I find that difficult to believe. If it were true they wouldn't go to such absurd lengths to prevent parties like AfD from coming to power.

Richard's avatar

Tying down the escape valve

jabster's avatar

I'm worried about that too. To Carter's comment below, the Globalist Left wants fascism alright, but it better be THEIR fascism.

"They can't do that to our pledges! Only we can do that to our pledges!"

Martin Štěpán's avatar

"None of us want that."

Speak for yourself.

Mitch's avatar
Dec 7Edited

I think based on the over-the-top ridiculousness of all of it, this must be the real underlying plan of the powers pushing this gay race communism.

James Koss's avatar

Exactly. It's a plan where either result is in their favor. And it's right out of the communist feminist woke revolutionary playbook of terrorism.

If a nation turns racist, then there's an excuse to invade it by force. And the reality is that globohomo moralist cults are effective, as history shows.

It's either the total removal of commies and their allies from society, or they win. And they are winning. And the result is some mixture between Brazil and Canada and China; modern slavery.

But even if they win, the fight is never over. Their creed is death, so they can't persist in any one place for more than a couple of generations. I'm sure there's a hint in that.

Eon's avatar

None of us?

David Westall's avatar

The leaders of the leftists understand that fully. That is exactly WHY they are doing it.

the long warred's avatar

If Fascism is the price of survival it will be paid.

SCA's avatar

When I lived in one of Those Places I went all over by myself, appropriately dressed according to local custom but I was unmistakably American. One day in a crowded street a local man put his hand on me and I started carrying on straight out of a filmi melodrama. I'd mastered enough of the local language to be able to say, quite loudly, "Am I not a human being? Have you no mother, no sisters?" and soon a little crowd of other local men gathered and asked me what had happened and I told them, and I got louder and more dramatic, demanding to know if I was some sort of lesser person just because I was a pardesi, and everyone assured me I was as entitled to honor as anyone else and they grabbed that guy and began giving him the business and I went away about my own business while they did.

Westerners fail to understand that these guys pull this everywhere and sometimes they get away with it and sometimes back in their home countries their fellows beat them to death or close enough to impart the lesson in that particular instance. They don't only rape English girls in the UK; they rape their own girls back home too. When I was running a little women's center I learned why so many poor families are reluctant to send their daughters to school. They can't protect them outside of the home. (Not infrequently they can't protect them within the home or compound, either.) Even rich cosmopolitan families can't protect a daughter whose boyfriend from the same or comparable class decides to rape and kill her if his family has better connections.

It's a ridiculous lie--even for Somalis of certifiable moron levels of intelligence--that these guys don't know what's permissible and impermissible behavior. Sure their own people, in their communities in Western countries, will defend them absolutely because in-group trumps outgroup regardless of the atrociousness of the transgression. But as you note, we've castrated our own legal system and our own men and boys in accommodation of the monsters we let in.

John Carter's avatar

One of the wildest stories I’ve seen was of a case in Pakistan in which some guy raped a girl, and the punishment the judges decided upon was for one of his sisters to get raped by one of the first girl’s brothers. Just completely alien.

SCA's avatar

That was in what used to be called the tribal territories. Same thing in Afghanistan. The Pukhtoons the British used to admire so much as manly fighting men are not only the absolute worst but the worst hypocrites too.

I was very friendly with a largely educated family from a village in the frontier. Their women wrapped up to the eyeballs when in their own neighborhood but if they went visiting in Islamabad or Karachi they didn't even cover their heads because in those places they were anonymous and didn't have to playact for the honor of their menfolk.

But I will emphasize that good people are good and bad people are bad and each type interprets the dictates of the faith they adhere to according to their own natures. And a majority of people anywhere can be led in whatever direction the more powerful or coercive voice pulls them.

John Carter's avatar

I’m generally of the opinion that most people are basically good. Tribal friction however is the source of much evil. It’s best to let people order their affairs according to their national inclinations. Trying to force everyone together is a sure path to conflict; what is acceptable in one culture is forbidden in another.

SCA's avatar

What I've seen a little too often now is how Western-born or almost entirely Western-raised children of middle-class educated or professional-level Muslim immigrants become performative hijabis in order to shove in our own faces that they have no intention of ever being Americans. Or Canadians or British. In many cases the children become far more conservative than their parents had been.

But look--I feel the same way about all separatist cultures here. I'm not more fond of the Hasidim or the Amish in comparison. Or even Mormons, really. Any of the magic-garments-of -virtue types, they each present their own danger to the fabric of a national society.

John Carter's avatar

A lot of them also assimilate to the lowest form of American culture, embracing vulgar urban thug aesthetics.

SCA's avatar

The people I'm thinking of consider us more or less filthy mongrels.

But this is directly because we abandoned that melting-pot concept. It used to be that moderately conservative middle-class Muslim families were fine with their women wearing Western slacks if it was intolerable to show their legs. Now they've all adopted Arab-style coverings which are equally alien to their own culture.

Andrea405's avatar

Bringing Amish and Hasidism may be an example of what you call separate, but NEVER IS THERE RAPING, BOMBING, BEATING. No taunting. They speak English. They want to be left alone. I enjoy the Amish farmers market and their well made porch chairs. I also enjoy seeing as a tourist the Hasidic bakeries, making delicicious Challah bread for my French toast and danishes to take home. Very very different than the gruesome truth in this essay.

KHP's avatar

Geez indeed. Among at least some of the Hasadim in the US, it's not unusual for men to have very limited proficiency in English.

Sardaukar's avatar

Just FYI, some of the best Marines I’ve ever encountered and worked with were Mormons.

KHP's avatar

Mormons don't fit this pattern because they are not that kind of insular.

SCA's avatar

Well, sure. But how deeply was each one of them into the magic underwear and personal planet thingies?

And I've no doubt that people raised in an extremely hierarchal culture would adapt quite well to the hierarchy of the military.

None of us carry blood guilt for the idiocies of where and to whom we were born. But I'm grateful that as an American I can choose what to believe in, or not, and the secular framework of our justice system is supposed to protect me from being returned by force, say, to a family or compound or community I might choose to escape from.

Very religious Mormons, and Jews, and Muslims, and Amish, etc. etc., are strongly conditioned to keep all the dirty laundry locked in the basement at home no matter much it might reek. I profoundly disagree with that mindset.

__browsing's avatar

I'm not sure comparing the Amish with even the most conservative Pakistani migrants is very fair, although you're right about insular religious denominations of any stripe posing long-term problems for liberal societies. (Israel is learning this the hard way.)

E Rock the Terrible's avatar

Literally the playbook that allowed the British Empire to form. I wonder which Empire this strategy is currently serving.

JasonT's avatar

Culture matters. A lot.

Enon's avatar

The tribal territories are the worst part of Afghanistan, which Abdur Rahman suckered the British into taking in the late 19th century. He was the ony man to ever really rule Afghanistan, maybe a harder man than any other Khan, but he was at heart an engineer and a genius. I have a soft spot for him; I covered *Khyber*, a book about the Northwest Frontier, and Abdur Rahman's neglected boy's-own adventure-like autobiography:

https://scanalyst.fourmilab.ch/t/terrifying-afghan-genius-king-abdur-rahman/4871 (sections from his autobiography seem to only be available there except as scans, the Internet Archive OCR is very corrupted)

There is no defeating or ruling such people without such a mindset.

Rikard's avatar

Thanks for chiming in - testimony from people who have lived it is crucial.

SCA's avatar

I must note I was very fortunate to have had truly loving and generous Muslim friends and to have had experience of extremely decent ordinary people from most levels of those societies (the rich ones were pretty awful, almost entirely).

Rikard's avatar

Moslem men and women, of differing racial origins, of the kind you speak of have joined the Sweden Democrat party in many places (the one party that actually wants to try and do something, even if it is on the eve of destruction), and many others who are not in politics do speak up in media when they are accidentally allowed.

There's an association of girls and women of moslem/MENA origin that has been trying to raise awareness of "honour violence" since 2001, and while it was initially fêted by mainstream media, when it became obvious how normal it is among many migrant groups, feminists and the main political parties (Greens, Socialists, Liberals, Communists, Libertarians) started shushing these women, as did media.

Nowadays the blackout on migrant girls (and boys!) being beaten up by parents for having the wrong boyfriend or girlfriend, or being thrown off o high-rise balconies is near-total in media.

The betrayal of even the most basic of a humane ethos, by the select elité groups of the West is a vileness I can't put proper words to.

John Carter's avatar

The liberal elites can't even be faithful to liberalism. One by one, they betray each of their principles until there is nothing left but power. Yet they still pretend to be good-thinking humanitarian liberals.

SCA's avatar

Well, it's the identical derangement with everyone insisting boys and men make better more authentic girls and women than girls and women do and must be protected and celebrated for their brave colonization of the female landscape. Feminists let this monster out of the box in the first place and it grew to its true size mighty quickly.

It just do be like that always, regardless of the atrocity to be protected. A few years ago I read about Paul Robeson's visit to an old friend who was at that time being held in a Soviet prison, shortly to be executed, and Robeson just absolutely refused to believe what was happening and about to happen because the Soviets were the true Second Coming or something and you just don't question holy things.

Rikard's avatar

Apocryphal anecdote:

"Your grace, if you look in the telescope you can see that the Moon has mountains!"

"Pish-posh! The Holy Cee has decreed the Moon a perfect sphere. There's no need to look!"

Allegedly, this happened in Iraly in the Reinaissance. Doesn't matter if it is really true or just true-ish, the lesson is stark.

But it seems this attitude is prevalent across all races, times, places and so on. Some vestigial evolutionary triat no without any function causing trouble maybe - "don't question troop leader, it undermines cohesion and performance" sort of.

SCA's avatar

Well, we're wired for responsiveness to hierarchy.

And look. You know how I feel about all Middle Eastern blood sacrifice cults, but without two of 'em we'd never have had Bach. All that craziness and yet it did lead to that which is sublime.

Demeisen's avatar

You point out a very important asymmetry relevant to the West and especially the US: their in-group preference is unapologetic and unfiltered. It's not bad to rip off weak white infidels.

SCA's avatar

In their own countries they unapologetically rip off one another too. Every wretched thing they do to Westerners in Western countries they do to their own back home.

It's always important to understand that bad people do bad things wherever they are and good people behave with decency and kindness wherever they are, and weak people are easily led in bad directions, and this is irrespective of educational attainment or social class.

Demeisen's avatar

Fair point, thank you. I also think about something I read about Afghanistan, it's being rough and somewhat predatory. Even people who were "on our side" do not think of women and how to treat them in public the same way we do.

SCA's avatar

The foundational value of the Western Enlightenment is "it is desirable and necessary to be able to ask questions about everything."

This is unique. It's the reason we in the US are not a Christian nation but rather the finest fruit of the Western Enlightenment.

The colonists were not a nation. They were a collection of competing Christian sects and they excluded and sometimes killed dissenting members of their own communities. Each sect wanted freedom only for its own beliefs and standards.

But those ideals of that miraculous Western Enlightenment were what one can forge a free vital nation-state from. If even many of our own American people can't understand what liberty is, that free inquiry is essential to it, can we expect people of any other culture to have any capacity to be able to comprehend what that is?

Every generation since our own founding we've had to drag ourselves by our bleeding fingertips and shredded nails back to our foundational values. It's not a new thing, trying to weaken and dilute the Constitution. The scorn for "originalism" is proof that it doesn't take an Afghan tribesman to be a complete total moron about what America was carefully crafted to be--a durable, workable, sensible standard for how to govern human beings without crushing them into a collective paste of mindlessness.

It's true, which I didn't really well understand myself until shockingly recently, that such a nation could only have been birthed from a tradition of Protestant thought but Protestants themselves have never been very good at tolerating dissent--that's why you've got a trazillion sects because if you had a different interpretation of your religion your fellow Christians would kick you out of their congregation.

But that courage to question was nevertheless a core aspect of their culture.

Unfortunately for us, the sort of education the Founders had been forged by doesn't presently exist anywhere in the West. We've got to restore that if we have any hope of saving ourselves now, and too many people who call themselves "conservative" are as bad as the deranged progressives when it comes to failing to understand our designed nature.

Cleve Johnson's avatar

…[I]n-group trumps outgroup regardless of the atrociousness of the transgression…”. I tend to agree and you may be right, but then, why did the locals come to your aid when you were being harassed by another local? Was it because you were in an even higher in group called persons being harassed? If that is it, it’s a trickey business ranking such groups. Of course they can easily be ranked in hindsight.

SCA's avatar

I was a woman publicly demanding my virtue be respected and defended in a culture that pretends women's virtue must *actually* be respected and defended.

They had no excuse to fail me because I was dressed appropriately according to their customs, and their streets are full of other women also walking by themselves while dressed appropriately according to their customs so I was in no way transgressing their rules so it was necessary for their own honor that they put on the show of defending mine.

Cleve Johnson's avatar

I agree and I’m on your side but is the lesson then to be in the highest in-group? And isn’t that what transectionalism (aka the victim hood olympics) is all about? If so, I suppose then the task is to redefine or rerank the in-groups.

SCA's avatar

Actual human beings aren't algorithms to be constantly recalculated.

I was extremely fortunate all the different times and for different lengths of time I was there to have met mostly decent and kind and generous people and I mostly experienced great courtesy and at the least almost no harassment even when I was idiotically clueless about many things. It's a miracle I wasn't just casually killed a hundred times over in those days for being a moron American woman.

Most of life is just accident. You get on the right bus, or the wrong one. You make good acquaintances or bad ones. You leave the house ten minutes early or three minutes late.

But specifically to Muslim culture and the behavior of migrants in Western countries, I know from long experience in one of their countries how horrible they routinely are to their own. They rape their own little Muslim children and their own Muslim women and this is on every level of society; rich Muslim guys rape and kill rich Muslim girls and whether they get away with it depends on the status of perpetrator and victim within the larger class and whose family has the more powerful connections or can compel the victim's family to "accept" blood money to "forgive" the offense.

It's being part of the leftist social justice cult that makes so many Westerners unable to understand this reality.

But there is a bigger reality too. Good people are good; bad people are bad; weak people can be led in either direction. Regardless of ethnicity it's very dangerous to allow bad and/or weak people into your own country. If the odds are that people of certain ethnicities have a higher proportion of negative to positive attributes that must be part of one's immigration calculus.

Cleve Johnson's avatar

“Actual human beings aren't algorithms to be constantly recalculated.” I’m not saying that they are but isn’t that precisely what current victimhood culture does? It amalgamates people into classes of victims and ranks them accordingly? Victimhood culture equates victimhood with goodness. The two are not the same. But perhaps this was your point.

As to the rich and powerful acting with impunity, I have never lived in an Arab country so I cannot speak to your experiences. I have practiced law in this one for over 45 years though and one thing I have learned is that for the rich, the law is generally an expense rather than an obligation. I tend to side with Thucydides “…[R]ight, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.”—Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War.

“Good people are good; bad people are bad”. I think it may be more complex than that. I was struck by something I learned in a social psychology class years ago. Many Nazi concentration camp guards were good family men. The idea was that there is more to good or evil behavior than character. See also the classic experiments of Stanley Milgram and Philip Zimbardo. The situation people find themselves in has much more effect than is generally understood. I’ve also learned that sometimes good people do bad things and sometimes bad people do good things. It’s not all just black and white. I’m not saying evil should be encouraged but if we are going to encourage good behavior, it would probably help for us to have a better understanding how it works.

SCA's avatar
Jan 6Edited

You left out the really important part of my sentence: "...weak people can be led in either direction."

Goodness is a unique positive trait. Badness/evil is a unique negative trait. It's under extraordinary stress/opportunity that the seemingly ordinary person may reveal his true nature. Most of us want our decent ordinary lives and to be left alone to enjoy them as best we can.

And no one can predict even their own behavior under extraordinary circumstances; we can't predict anyone else's either.

fiendish_librarian's avatar

From ABBA to Akhbar within living memory. Here's hoping Sweden doesn't become one of Mark Steyn's societies that become too stupid to survive.

John Carter's avatar

The father of one of the ABBA singers was a Nazi; she was a product of the Lebensborn program. Things can change very quickly…

Hardwicke Benthow's avatar

C.S. Lewis had a saying that the devil always sends his errors out into the world in opposite pairs so that those who recognize an error or an evil as such will flee right into the open arms of the opposite one. People in high places have used the history of the Nazis to trick the gullible into fleeing to the opposite errors of the Nazis.

Instead of a ghoulish level of intolerance, a level of over-tolerance that has over time proven to be as ghoulish in its own way. Instead of a cultish overemphasis on Aryan identity, an equally cultish emphasis on multiculturalism. And so on.

A lot of Europeans experienced the horrors brought on by the Nazis firsthand, and so they and their descendants were very easy to trick into accepting the opposite evils.

John Carter's avatar

Precisely so.

Mitch's avatar

excellent comment

KHP's avatar

Hasn't it already become so? The stuff the author and some of the commenters like Rikard are talking about sounds to me like applying the defibrillator to the person who's had a heart attack - - It might revive them, it might not, but either way it's a desperate intervention an an extremely morbid patient.

Rikard's avatar

"...ubiquitous gypsy women begging outside grocery stores or shoving their cups under your face when you sat on the terrace..."

As a Swede, I'd like to add to this: the gypsies only dare beg in front of Swedish-owned or manned stores. They initially tried it on front of Pakistani and Arab stores in Malmö where I lived when they first appeared (years before they started appearing further North) and the ragheads simply beat them up and that was that. Police didn't do squat, but when Swedish store-owners asked to have them removed, police refused and when Swedish store-owners (f.e.) poured water on the beggars in Winter, the police sharged the owner.

Oh, and for the first 1-2 years of this, our media denied it was happening at all, something I know from speaking to journalists via e-mail and getting called all sorts of things for my trouble.

"I suspect much of Sweden’s ostentatious self-harm is explained by Sweden’s somewhat inflated sense of its importance on the international stage, a belief encapsulated by the Swedish government’s characterization of Sweden as a ‘humanitarian superpower’. Swedes are fashion-conscious people, with an aristocratic assumption that others are looking to them and taking their cues from them."

All too true, and again I'd like to add something:

We have a curious mixture of hubris and resentiment going on due to our history. How it manifests is mainly due to class: upper classes have more of the resentiment of our (for several hundred years) diminished importance, working classes have more hubris for thinking the "Swedish model" as it was called being the superior form of running a nation, and on top of that we have our domestic version of "American exceptionalism", but Swedish. This is in constant conflict with our traditional strong character traits of trustworthiness, dilligence and doing what is right and "att vara som folk", alt. "bete sig som folk" - "be as (one of the) people" / "act as (one of the) people is supposed to act".

Cont. next comment.

John Carter's avatar

Man, those fucking gypsies.

I was at the gym quite early one day, and after saw a very nice car pull up at the supermarket down the street. A well-dressed woman got out, threw a filthy rag of a shawl around her shoulders, and squatted down at the entrance with her begging cup and laminated poster of her poor, starving refugee children.

Another story: a Persian man I lived with briefly, who worked at the migration agency. I was worried he’d be an insufferable shitlib but as it turned out he worked the deportation desk and loved his job. Before working there he’d been a police officer, posted to some small village in the north. The gypsies had shown up and started making gypsy nuisances of themselves. So he and his partner - whom he described as a six-foot-something viking-model Swede - paid them a visit in the small hours of the morning. Kicked in the door of the shipping container they were squatting in, ran their maglites down the corrugated steel for a nice loud noise, and screamed “RAUS!” Next day the gypsies were gone, and when the locals wondered where they went my friend and his partner played innocent.

fiendish_librarian's avatar

Sounds like what happens in Toronto. They have crews working the Toronto subway and major highway off-ramps in the suburbs. And like what was mentioned above, they wear fake hijabs and are occasionally harassed and beaten up by actual Muslims who encounter them. And like so many other things over the past decade, we can thank Trudeau for that. He rescinded Harper-era visas from Romania for....reasons....as soon as he got into office, and literally the next week the Toronto subway had crews of gypsies working the busy downtown stations.

k l m's avatar

Some times the media will bother talking to the gypsies and they're honest/stupid enough to admit they plan to spend the rest of their lives traveling back and forth between Romania and other European countries to beg/steal/generally be nuisances. The reintroduction of hard borders and death of Schengen can't come soon enough.

Alex Thrace's avatar

It is sad that the once great Sweden has emasculated their young men like this. One solution would have been for the Swedish boys to offer to change seats with the girls. My grandson in Denmark (14 years old) was faced with a similarly situation in a movie theater. That was exactly what he did then gave the evil eye to the sub-Saharan boys sitting behind him now as if he dared them to try something. The Africans decided that a more polite behavior was the better option. I have high hopes for the country's future as this option becomes more common.

John Carter's avatar

The Danes are decidedly less tolerant of this kind of shit, and in fact regularly mock the Swedes for their insane feminism and emasculation.

Alex Thrace's avatar

I sent this article to my grandson and he commented to the tune of:

I can't help but wonder if any of those girls were on the welcoming line for the "migrants welcome" parade.

I also wonder had the Swedish boys taken action, how the girls would react? Perhaps like bettered wives, raising up to protect their husband/tormentor because someone dared challenge him.

Valid questions.

if these theoretical dissenter don't stand up soon I doubt they will be able to reverse this momentum.

Alex Thrace's avatar

I believe that young Erik was quietly hoping they would start something. LOL. My boy!

Odysseus's avatar

I was in Denmark recently and Copenhagen was full of immigrants. Interestingly, they were very quiet and polite.

William Hunter Duncan's avatar

It is an acute problem here in Minnesota, which is full of the descendants of northern Europeans.

In the news a lot lately, because of the billion+ stolen by Somalis, from welfare programs. Somalis too have had slaps on the wrist for rape and murder. One serial rapist is back in the news, for murder. Liberals are falling all over themselves apologizing for such behavior. Liberal media in MN is writing daily stories about ICE, but is silent about the fraud the rest of the country is talking about.

We are bankrupting the state, or rather the Twin Cities metro is bankrupting the state, giving welfare to Somalis and illegal immigrants flooding here for free everything; the newest thing, 20 weeks of paid medical leave per year, every business, no matter how small or seasonal, must participate. Even illegals can apply. Governor Walz of course sees no possibility this will be abused.

Good news is, Walz is running for a third term, but he cannot really leave the metro without being shouted down. I've been openly saying to everyone I talk to, if the cities vote for Walz again it is probably time for outstate to secede from the State of Mn.

John Carter's avatar

It's wild how Minnesotans followed the political evolution of Sweden to the t: set up sterile socialist utopia; get bored; flood your territory with Somalis.

Also, can't help but thinking that Shiloh speaking the Word Of Power a year ago led directly to exposure of the vast scale of social services fraud by Somalis.

William Hunter Duncan's avatar

Unfortunately the county prosecutor charged her, asking for something like a year in prison, probably under pressure from Walz and our Muslim Attorney General, Keith Elilison. Probably from Ilhan Omar too.

John Carter's avatar

Sure, and of course. But she hasn't been convicted yet.

Richard's avatar

Understand that TC area makes up vast majority of population but this is not true outside the TC area. I've got relatives outside of there and they hate Walz and city politics. They are even more "red" than what I see in northern Alabama.

Richard's avatar

This is exactly why the US needs to disengage with Europe. The new national defense strategy is a positive start but follow through is needed. As for you guys up in The Great White North, I am torn between disengagement, running guns to the patriots or trying to separate places like Alberta.

John Carter's avatar

I don’t think disengagement is at all the right strategy. Much better to throw diplomatic weight behind nationalist parties. Clear the traitors out, get ideologically aligned allies into power, and begin the process of remigrating the invaders and rebuilding the continent.

Richard's avatar

Might be a question of tactics and timing. I expect the Establishment parties to ratchet up the oppression of the nationalists. US diplomatic pressure could make that worse. Just pulling out might deliver enough of a shock to tip the balance to the nationalists. Then we could selectively reengage . Or if we could reengage with Russia, we could embargo LNG exports forcing them to depend on Russia again. Better Russia than the Caliphate. Or we could announce that we will only have diplomatic relations with the EU and if any of the provinces want direct contact with the US, they have to withdraw from the EU. Some sort of major shock to the system.

John Carter's avatar

Major shocks are being delivered economically, For instance, the trade war on Canada, or the extraordinarily one-sided trade "deal" Trump forced the EU to sign.

I suspect the strategy is a form of soft sanctions on unfriendly governments, combined with cultural and diplomatic support for homegrown dissidents. The idea is to make the existing political order economically untenable, while offering an off-ramp to countries that elect nationalists.

The EU is trying to retaliate by e.g. fining Musk $140M dollars, but they're playing with a very weak hand.

Richard's avatar

Too slow. There are way too many Europhiles here and not just Democrats. If either Democrats or RINOs get in power again it will all be undone. We need to collapse the Euro establishment fast. No deliberate regime change desired, just bail and let the chips fall where they may

John Carter's avatar

Regime change is the fastest way of collapsing the Euro establishment, though.

And the Democrats can't be allowed to take power again. That much is very clear.

Richard's avatar

RINOs are just as dangerous

Richard's avatar

I disprove of active regime change. It is imperialism which is got us into this mess in the first place. .Just pull out

Rikard's avatar

Trumps announcement that the US embassy is to delve into Sweden's situation has caused wuite the stir here, I can tell you

State & regime media used it as something to rally around. In a parozysm of hypocrisy they appealed to patriotism and national pride, to protest against this and try and stop the embassy from collecting the data (which is publicly avaliable to a great degree, though purposefully made difficult to search and collate).

John Carter's avatar

It’s similar here in Canada. Vance made some unkind remarks about the consequences of our insane immigration policy, and the leaflibs immediately tried to rally round the flag as though they hadn’t spent the last decade telling everyone that Canada is a racist settler-colonial genocidal post-national multicultural country with no core identity built on stolen native land. “National suicide is the patrioric thing to do” is one hell of a narrative.

fiendish_librarian's avatar

Given MAID numbers up here, that tracks.

AT's avatar

Unfortunately, many are nuckear powers. What happens when they get taken over by Islamists?

Sardaukar's avatar

Just off the cuff, offer political asylum for warship & aviation crews carrying nuclear weapons to turn them over to us (or sabotage them, as nuclear munitions are complex and easily damaged), followed up by surgical strikes and recovery operations on the weapon storage depots (which unfortunately will require boots on the ground). However, what I’m particularly concerned with is the amount of nuclear fuel & plutonium they currently have (the UK has at least 100 tons, no idea on the French but likely similar or more). That amount can make an incredible number of ‘dirty bombs’ for the use by the new Caliphates and would require a coordinated large scale, non combat, physical removal. Possibility of bribing or buying them from the new rulers, but I don’t think that’s likely.

Richard's avatar

We do what the British did to the French fleet in 1940. UK nukes are all in boomers with a lot of American equipment. Frogs have boomers plus some aircraft so that will be harder to take out but hopefully we know where they are.

RAY FALCIOLA's avatar

Pat Buchanan has been saying multiple flavors of this article for DECADES

He was right so of course he was crushed

Ritually recast him as the second coming of Hitler when in reality all he was preaching was that the nominally Christian west has a right to its own ethnic and cultural survival

Meanwhile we fund our own annihilation as a culture

If you fund and support your own marginalization in your own culture and country it is a guarantee you will succeed

All because we're fraidy scared someone will call us racists

John Carter's avatar

Buchanan was a prophet. The American Enoch Powell.

RAY FALCIOLA's avatar

And you didn't have too be smart to know he was right. It all was so obvious.

Perhaps one may not have thought about it but once you think about what he was saying it is obvious. IF YOU REPLACE YOURSELF YOU'LL BE REPLACED.

Not rocket science

He is a smart man and a prophet of sorts and a hell of a writer but his biggest virtue is he had the balls to speak up and say it Amazing how it takes Soviet dissident balls to speak in the so called free speech bastions of the west

Almost all the rest of us are intimidated that we might be called racist even though we know we aren't. We ALSO know that we'll be crushed. Look what they did to doctors who spoke out against the mRNA clot shots that DAILY are being proven to be the harm and death lottery injections they said they would be. THEY WERE DESTROYED. Lost jobs and careers merely for saying "ah, ya might want to be careful about those shots, they cause clots and myocarditis and stuff as yet to be revealed". They were right and were crushed. You take a doctor's job and soon enough you probably take his family because much as we all like to be idealistic lots of those doctor spouses aren't marrying the doctor because he/she made vows of poverty working in a free clinic.

John Carter's avatar

The other side can't argue, because their arguments are with obvious reality, thus they fall back on defamation, career destruction, etc. They know it won't shut up a courageous speaker, but the weak of character will be scared into line.

Ed Leventhal's avatar

Along with Mark Steyn. His “America Alone,” is over 20 years old wherein he concisely said, “The future belongs to those who show up.” Meaning Demography is destiny.

Anthony S Burkett's avatar

The same as the overall majority of the other European nations (Britain and Germany being prime examples)... Sweden's governmental policies have caused this to occur. One day, possibly with little to no forewarning, it's going to blow up in their faces... the average Swede is going to have had their fill of this shit... and Hell is going to come to breakfast.

Rikard's avatar

Nitpickery:

"Sweden's governmental policies have allowed this to occur."

Change "allow" to "caused", this Swede would say.

Anthony S Burkett's avatar

I stand corrected!

Diamond Boy's avatar

“How does a country come, in such a short period of time, to embrace its own annihilation with such enthusiastic abandon?”

Answer: Education, school, the academy, this is the source, this is what they teach our children, so…….

Until we change school we are guaranteed to lose. Do you feel like lashing out at them - those responsible - well sorry to say but your own kids will resist you. Your children believe in this stupidity because that is what they were taught. No solution is possible as long as they - the left liberal fools - own the means of cultural production.

Anything short of addressing the problem with education is not much more than whistling past the graveyard.

John Carter's avatar

Absolutely, and the author addresses each of these at length as he shows how Swedish society was captured.

Frederick Roth's avatar

While you are right in your assessment of the propagandist process, its a huge mistake focusing on the left alone.

This is the result of two sets of elites collaborating together to enshittify their countries. The left wants revenge upon the evil Westerner, the right wants cheap labour. They are equally to blame.

FkDahl's avatar

Former Swedish Moderaterna ( liberal-conservative) party leader and Prime Minister Fredrik Reinfeldt even wrote a book promoting mass migration as a way to break the unions and the social welfare system

Joe's avatar

Hate to say it but it seems that the white race, after being the tip of the spear in just about every conceivable way throughout recorded history, is on a self destructive collapse. Is there any country in the world where a non white society is allowing the wholesale invasion of another culture that differs greatly from their own? Ane there are very few white majority country where this invasion is not occurring to a greater or lesser extent? I’m afraid that by the time liberals become convinced that their policies have been horribly wrong and are willing to try and do something about it, it will be too late. There must be a tipping point at which time removal of the “invading” populace will require all out civil war. A number of European countries are there already.

John Carter's avatar

That’s obviously the plan.

It isn’t going to succeed.

Dr. Joe P.'s avatar

🤞

Tiffanie Gray's avatar

So Sweden has Stockholm Syndrome.

John Carter's avatar

The book’s title is a play on that, obviously.

Tiffanie Gray's avatar

Yep! Figured that!

I just chose to state the obvious. Maybe I shouldn't have. Maybe I should have left it mysterious...

Nah, I'm obvious today.

Excellent essay. Thank you.

John Carter's avatar

Honestly I probably could have added a paragraph making the analogy more obvious. It occurred to me.

Rikard's avatar

Cont. from first comment:

I'm very glad you mention Arnstberg, he is one of exceedingly few skilled academics who will even touch the issue and be frank about it.

"Sweden’s elites astutely use the educational system and the media to manage the social consensus..." Make that on /every single issue possible/.

The uzbek terrorist was here illegally, and as a construction worker.

"...the centre-right parties have faced furious condemnation from both domestic media and their European counterparts abroad..."

Not only that, but from the EU itself and also from the UN - apparently, according to the UN, Sweden now preparing to change the laws so that foreign criminals with Swedish can lose that citizenship, is somehow racist and wrong.

John Carter's avatar

Of course I mentioned Arnstberg. This is the foreword to his book!

Rikard's avatar

I mean as in I'm glad he is getting recognition somewhere - that acute sense of self-importance you know, it works no matter what the source is.

If enough Swedish elites were to perceive that other nations/groups that they wish to seem important in front of laugh at them or are horrified at what they are doing, they'll change just as fast as Oceania goes to war with Eastasia.

John Carter's avatar

Yes, exactly, and I think that will actually happen very quickly over the next several years. The stock of multicultural liberalism is falling very quickly, and Sweden’s existing elites are going to look like utter clowns if they keep holding onto those ideals.

shorterboy's avatar

The change was paid for and most likely by USAID every NGO is government funded the US got them rolling educated the Swedish elite and now you have infinity brown people because feminists are insane vindictive cat ladies. There was an expose on middle aged feminists in Sweden and how they loved the browns as they finally got some sex so voting patterns are not changing until this group are removed, they have no interest in other peoples welfare.

John Carter's avatar

Yeah there were a whole lot of postmenopausal Swedish women sleeping with their Afghan boy toys.

Erik Olson's avatar

Right. So it's simply not going to change

HumbleRando's avatar

Great post, as always!

I've got to admit, a small part of me (probably the less virtuous part) enjoys watching Europe's slow-motion collapse. Any group of people so weak-willed that they allow themselves to be conquered by foreign invaders simply because they do not wish to seem "racist" are -at least in MY opinion - contemptible vermin, who completely deserve the extinction that they seem to be heading towards.

I hope that the Swedes manage to find their spine in time to repel the foreign invaders, but if they don't - if they allow their wives and daughters to be raped to extinction by subhuman barbarians without firing even a single shot at their treacherous politicians who allowed this - then they should know that the world will forget everything about them other than this cautionary tale, and for the rest of time the term "native Swede" will be an object of derision and laughter.

John Carter's avatar

I mean, you can say that, but European demographics are much healthier than American demographics, where immigration has been quite heavy since the 60s. Glass houses etc.

But I'm not personally interested in schadenfreude. We're all in this together.

JW Writes's avatar

I can honestly say that, except on the annual occasion an old church friend who is Swedish says Merry Christmas to me annually, I never think about Sweden. And if I think about Sweden or most of Europe, the only thing I think about is how they are committing suicide and will never get those people out. The immigrants will have no problem with open conquest while the unarmed and soft Europeans will be slaughtered in a straight fight. I understand, on the level you explain, the “how they got here” but I absolutely do not understand how they got here. How does a civilization/continent just walk off the cliff on purpose??

John Carter's avatar

Oh, the immigrants are going to leave, all right.

Marion's avatar

Do you really believe that? I wish mass deportation would happen (I am English living in the north east of England) but I really can’t see how. The U.K. is aging, fat, unfit - our men seem to have no fight in them and those nominally on the ‘right’ idiotically believe that Nigel Farage or the very heavily Jewish/Zionist aligned ‘Tommy Robinson’ will save the day. Consider how the vast, vast majority fell for the covid lies - the masking, the jabbing, etc. in 2021 I talked to a man on the street, (I live In a largely white, working class community) who just wished the government would re-open the pubs. No fight, no civil disobedience even. Just moaning, hooking filthy masks round their ears as they step into the supermarket, waiting in line outside a derelict shop to get jabbed while fat, clueless, fall-for-any-old-shite Karens from the council managed the queue with their clipboards.

The Muslims in the northeast have never assimilated - they first came to the county where I live in the mid 1960s, all impoverished, and from the worst parts of Pakistan. They wear their ugly clothes, they breed with their cousins, and our hospitals are full of the results of this inbreeding, a crippling expense for the nhs (for the white British, in other words). And of course, there’s all the raping, the halal slaughter, the praying on the streets with their backsides in the air to cause deliberate nuisance; and then there’s the filthy, disgusting, corrupt mess they have made of Birmingham. Nothing, and I do mean nothing, is ever done about any of this. In fact our treacherous government has just removed the two child cap on family allowance - of course, it’s Muslims who have more than two children generally and the government knows this, most don’t work, or work at jobs where it is very easy to avoid taxes, or to import more of their cousins that they don’t have to pay for their labour in shops and restaurants. (Every white person should boycott the awful curry houses and corner shops, the taxis and food delivery services too, but they won’t, and don’t, through laziness and the idea that nice Ali is not one of the rapists, no, no, of course not!

So, anyway, that was a rant - but I would really like to believe that there will be some massive change in government that makes mass deportations possible - I just can’t believe it. I am 64, if such a change ever happens in my remaining lifetime I will be absolutely over-joyed, but also extremely surprised. All opinion/evidence to the contrary would be gratefully appreciated (I look for it every day and am always disappointed).

JW Writes's avatar

I am not in Europe but I don’t see who is going to make them leave or how. As you say, the native populations are aging, physically passive (some seem to be getting mad enough to be at least mentally tough again), and unarmed. The immigrants will happily use a knife or a vehicle or bare hands or roving gangs. And they are having a lot of children vs the anti-natalist “save the world” crap if the Europeans.

The EU and UK governments - who are cancelling all level of elections willy nilly - have no desire to wage war on the invaders and are bringing, or at least allowing, more in daily. Even Germany, which has suddenly decided “no more” can’t stop their porous border from allowing people in. Their armed forces are tiny and I’d guess unwilling to wage guerrilla warfare in the streets among the populace - not to mention (I’m guessing) they’ve let a lot of the invaders into the armed services anyway.

I don’t see how it ends well for the native populations.

Brigitte's avatar

Hm. Sloth really is the worst of the sins. Look at the hell it brings. I’m so sad to see England go this way.

James Koss's avatar

This isn't the first time in history where you see corruption destroying a society. Bribes, terrorists, actors, thugs, and moralistic academic explanations can very quickly change life for everyone.

You can probably ship a bunch of invaders and keep them loose with only legal bribes.

Richard's avatar

Immigration is just the start of the suicidal lunacy. Add in net zero, the Establishment party blockade of nationalism, the fertility rate and the desire for war with Russia