383 Comments

This was fascinating to read and somehow I feel better because of it.

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That was the intention.

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It worked.

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Fantastic. Powerful. Enlightening. Motivating. Bravo!

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Of course you do. Selling cheap hope to the slightly aware sheep. Do you get paid to do it, johnny?

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You know, you're right: I should focus on seeing the cloud in ever silver lining, smugly explaining how every W is akshually an L, relentlessly demoralizing the 'slightly aware sheep', until they get so depressed at the sheer hopelessness of our situation that they either take up a fentanyl habit or give a shotgun a blowjob.

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You may have hurt the poor fellow’s tender sensibilities.

Pity.

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No sheep. Johnny boy is only hurting you by selling false hope and idols. You are just as stupid and gullible as the sheep that stayed inside for the better part of two years and felt good about it. Feeling good based on a falsitude will make your despair even bitter once reality strikes.

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Bullshit reasoning in line with the article you posted. But what can be expected from, most probably, a paid shill. Let me tell you something johnny boy. Almost no one kills themselves because of the despair brought by a totalitarian regime. As I already lived through one way before covid I have some actual knowledge about people behaviour when times get hard. You dont. Confronting a bad situation and acting based on facts, not fantasies, almost always results in a better outcome. Selling and buying as a potential saviour the baphomet costume wearer, neurolink "builder", fake richest man on the planet, mars colonizer bullshitter only helps postponing the moment when a real decision has to be taken. But I guess that is why you are paid, right?

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At least, someone who gets it. Elon Musk is nothing but a false idol. He's been AstroTurfed to appease the masses of disgruntled normies.

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Dec 16, 2023Edited
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There was an experiment with rats where they threw them in a tank of water and watched. They'd tread water for an hour or so, then stop struggling and drown. Unless at the last minute they picked them up, dried them off, let them catch their breath, and then threw them back in. Those rats would tread water for a day or more.

A little hope goes a long way indeed.

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10 times more people were born in Sub-Saharan Africa last year as in Europe

it's over

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The African population bulge is the actual natural disaster that threatens civilization this century.

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Which makes all the 'politics' Blah Blah that fills both the MSM and most of social media pretty much of an irrelevance.

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Europeans have never won because of numbers

To be outnumbered only makes heroics all the more beautiful

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+++

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Britain had a population of around 8m when it conquered India which had a population (estimated) of 150m.

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Then there's the Rhodesian Bush War.

To say nothing of Cortes.

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Rhodesia - betrayed by the all the white politicians in Britain and the USA. The Dutch won't take Boers as refugees - let them be tortured and slaughtered on their farms. Teresa May (as Britain's Prime Minister) said it was okay to confiscate White peoples farms without compensation in South Africa as long as it was done "legally"

Seems traitors are the main problem

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Cortes is the gold standard of white achievement. Words like heroic hardly do him justice.

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We should be holding him up to our youth, and telling them, see this guy? Emulate that. Few have ever been his match for sheer greatness.

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Dont you worry johnny boy. That is exactly the kind of role model the wef is showcasing to their youth. And soon, you, even if yoh are a shill, will realize what emulating cortez means on your own skin.

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Captain Cook, Shackleton, Mallory, Selous, Rhodes, Clive of India, Sleeman (ended Thuggee Cult) Nelson .... could go on and on

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Aussie Philip? This, John Carter guy is awesome, eh!

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1) Yes. 2) Which is why I subscribe.

Amazing who shows up in the threads. Whoever has access to the entire platform would get a good idea of who the usual suspects really are. One has to wonder: which of us, if any, is a real-life Keyser Soze?

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No. Stalin is. Died as the absolute ruler of the largest country on Earth and not heavily in debt after pludering half a continent as your idol did.

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A genocidal psychopath as another of your idols? Who would have thought. What about Stalin? From a poor boy in backyard georgia to the absolute ruler of the actual country that won the second world war. A true believer in himself with a can do attitude. What's not to like?

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But total fertility rates were fairly high. Excess population was shipped off to the colonies or forced into the armed forces. As I understand it India was conquered by divide and rule with the East India Company relying heavily on locally recruited mercenaries and allies.

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This is pretty much how it was done, yes.

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unfortunately two massive brother wars have reduced the hero element significantly

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Fortify the borders. Post guards. Put the navies to good use. Inform the North African nations and Turkey that we'll be sending millions back and that we will fire upon any ship trying to intercept the transfer.

Cancel any and all "foreign aid" - if corporations wants to bribe their way into african markets they can do it on their own dime.

After the first couple of NA/Turkish ships are sunk or captured, and the US told to shut the fuck up or take the the migrants themselves - since it is largely due to US political action the situation is what it is today - it will peter out.

The craft, manpower and materials exist. The Will does not. Let's awaken the Will.

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Exactly. Sink the boats, and they'll stop coming. The womenfolk will cry about it off course. We just need to tell them to shut up.

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A sound plan, but first they came for, or in this case went for, and I wasn't, will probably be the order of the day.

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I wish people would stop bringing up 'foreign aid' as if the average sub-saharan African was living off western largesse, rather than 90% of the proceeds being funnelled away by corrupt bureaucrats and then piped back into the western banking system in the form of capital flight. Even if this wasn't happening, aid to Africa only amounts to maybe 50 dollars per person per year, which is less than debt repayments.

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Even more reason to cancel it, frankly.

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And I wish americans would understand that other nations aren't the US.

For Sweden, 1% of our GDP - that's /gross/ domestice product - goes right into the pockets of corrupt regimes to smooth matters for our export industry.

Do you really think Iran needs aid money from Sweden? Or SA? Not to mention that huge amounts of the aid money has gone and still goes to AQiM, Hamas, Fatah/PLO, and other such groups.

Hey, we're even funding a never-to-be-completed railroad in Turkey, because if it is completed the money would stop coming.

How do /you/ think Erdogan got the money for his palace, with a cost of several billions of USD? It wasn't via taxes on the turks.

No. Cut off all of it. We didn't need that and in contrast to Africa, we here live in the (sub)-arctic and managed just fine. We even managed to get rid of malaria, rabies and most paraistical diseases all on our lonesome without any fucking aid.

You can't mean negros and arabs and turks and other "brownies" are less able than white people, can you? That'd be racist, you know.

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I'm HBD-pilled, you don't need to lecture me on the relative capacities of different racial/ethnic groups. I'm pointing out that cutting off current aid payments to Africa will make a negligible difference to local mortality rates/birthrates in terms of money available for food & medicine, et cetera. Curbing population size through starvation is, in any case, a fairly barbaric solution to the problem.

Personally I would double the aid budget for Africa, cancel all debt owed, stamp out capital flight (including of human capital), and transfer aid moneys directly as a basic income via l-pesa or similar wireless systems to circumvent the bureaucrats. In exchange, the countries in question would have to adopt a two-child policy and stick to it. It's the only sustainable arrangement.

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No, I want MY tax money to stay in MY country, and more importantly, stay in MY pocket.

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Dec 16, 2023
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As I said elsewhere in the thread, I'm not labouring under any delusions about typical afro IQ and/or the likely genetic contribution to that disparity. I'm pointing out that there's no biological reason why most of the continent couldn't be run like Botswana, with a moderate degree of white/asian investment and supervision.

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Dec 13, 2023
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Exactly. It's a Rube Goldberg machine that will get eaten by African social pathology and simply make the problems there worse, as compared to the elegant simplicity of just sinking the boats.

A dinghy goes down with one bullet. Helicopter patrols of the North African coast, with snipers. Sink the dinghies within swimming distance of the shore and loss of life is minimal. Very soon they'll stop coming.

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Pay a fair sum to the Tuareg chieftans to close the routes across the Sahara to people further south. Afrikaners aside, you cannot surpass the Tuareg in realism when it comes to managing human resource issues in Africa.

No foreign aid to scumbag NGOs but money for unsentimental locals who have the capacity to get the job done.

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GiveDirectly has been running a pilot basic income scheme in Kenya for several years now, I believe, and none of this has materialised. Botswana's fertility rate is currently less than 3 children per woman. This is an achievable goal.

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Dec 13, 2023
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To encourage the continent to not be a malthusian pressure-cooker wracked by civil war and constantly squeezing out waves of desperate refugees? Setting aside the basic humanitarian argument, turning Europe into a police-state fortress with gunboats constantly patrolling the mediterranean isn't going to be cheap either, you know.

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50 dollars is too much. I would prefer zero.

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In the first instance, I would say belts of landmines are our friends, and if we had Africa to our south, I'd be satisfied with that. However, we are fortunate in having Central and South America on that border instead of the Middle East and Africa. A more nuanced approach is called for. To our south and north we have our natural trading partners, who we would badly need in the event unrestricted naval warfare, or possible climate-chaos induced disruption of oceanic shipping, limited our total resources to our continent.

It's also best to maintain friendly relations with bordering countries, so a real Wall, and strict, harsh, effective and unpleasant border enforcement short of actual lethality are probably better policy. Execution of African and Chinese invaders entering via our land borders would be quite all right because it would probably have a dissuasive effect and anyways fuck'em.

As for Europe: just strafe and sink the boats, and belts of landmines along the Turkish border.

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Also hand over the warmongers to the Nations they have destroyed to let them hand out some justice

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Central bank owner parasitism + Christian derived egalitarianism = end of mankind

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But if the Christians had maintained their anti usury stance and not allowed dealings with usurers then the parasite class would not have become so powerful. If the equality mantra was applied as to be before God rather than on the Earthly plane it may not have been so destructive. You are therefore correct !

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These Africans are only alive because Europeans feed them. As soon as the feeding stops, the breeding stops.

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No it's not. They are incompetent peasants and all that it will take to repel them is the backbone to do it. The main impediment to doing that is clearing out those who will stop Europe from becoming Africa. It can be done, stop despairing.

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Exactly. And the non-entities clinging to power in the West are themselves extremely unimpressive humans.

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Look up the casualty rates by side during the Bush War. It's not over until the last White man is gone.

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It's just supply and demand. Birthrates are a giant red herring.

https://fatrabbitiron.substack.com/p/secede-children

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The Black Pill is the worst pill. They want us demoralized, hopeless, resigned. I for one will never given them the this.

With regard to African birthrates. They are too high, but its not like they're not going through their own demographics transition. They are, and birthrates are coming down, this may happened too slow for their own and the rest of the world's good, but they are coming down.

Personally, I have a hope that the Chinese will do a big difference. Europeans have spent half a century trying to build wells or educate or whatever useless nonsense they have wasted money on. The Chinese are just building infrastructure, mines, and factories. Perhaps this is what it takes. Make people richer, drive urbanization. Africans will be too busy watching TikTok and driving Chinese cars to have babies.

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Whitey is done dudes, we let it happen , no excuses , we lay down out of fear and disinterest in our own future , RIP Whitey , you were a force to be reckoned with back in the day but the tide has turned as it always does and the world will be a much worse off place because of it. What happened to South Africa is now the future for the entire world except for Israel and Japan but Israel has sealed it's own fate by Islamising the West. Japan will survive they have great respect for themselves , they won't let the hordes in no matter what.

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Yep, turned out longer than I expected too. I started the read before noon, away from the computer and drove to the P.O., and back 12 miles each way, read a bit more, broke for 3 beers with my son & now finished the read @15:08.

Hope you're right that the times they are ah changin' but looking back, with 85 years of perspective, the pendulum swings both ways but the center keeps creeping to the left.

Oh well, civilization was great while it lasted. Maybe we humans gave it our best try but it's the cockroaches time to shine.

Come on youngsters, prove me wrong.

Please prove me wrong!

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My thoughts exactly!

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I don't trust Musk, if only because of the concept of Neuralink which is very evidently supposed to be brain-chips, to suggest he put those in his guards seems pretty foolish. Why chip the guards like one would cattle?

That said I do agree that the infighting in the ranks is causing considerable disarray, with wild candidates such as those in Hollande et Argentine changing the tide. There are other places yielding such candidates, you have Japan that's proving uncooperative, Quebec does have ever more right-wing parties (Partie-Quebecois led by Paul St-Pierre Plamondon is gaining popularity out there (I know you don't like Quebec Carter, but it has shifted ever more to the right, the trouble is that the elections have been captured since '73 due to the false-flag event in October of that year). You have France's steering to the right with Zemmour, Aselineau and others. You also have Scandinavia which is proving ever more intractable and keen to deal with its imported Jihad problem. What is more is that South-Asia is following Japan & Vietnam's leads, and they're keen to forge a common destiny in which they control the sea-lanes of the area and have allied with Uruguay for beef.

The Globalists are losing ground everywhere except in Ottawa/Toronto, Washington, Berlin, Rome and London.

If Musk were to abandon his satanic Neuralink research, I'd probably have a little more confidence in him but as it is, I'm as suspicious of him as Morgoth is. But I'm willing to give an inch of confidence and say it is possible he may have turned on his possibly former masters. For humanity's sake, I hope you're right John Carter.

I really hope this is a battle that is won so that this fractious stupid Great Reset era can be put behind, and we can all work towards a better time in our lives. I'd rather focus all my energies on novels, and leave reading politics to one side rather than reading it to keep track of what the deep-state mobsters are doing or screwing up this week.

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The first gen neuralink is essentially a medical prosthesis, to help the crippled walk and the blind see. I can't see that as a bad thing.

Consumer models are many years away. We'll see what they look like. I can't see there being mass buy in unless security is much, much better than the current generation of cell phones, for instance. At that level of intimacy people will want strong guarantees that corporations won't be pushing ads into their subconscious.

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A neuralink type interface is inevitable. It is the next step. The first gen might be cumbersome and unwieldly, but do you remember what cell phones looked like, and what their capabilities were not that long ago?

Our use of technology is limited by the speed of the "man/machine" interface. The speed of the computer and the vast amount of information available on it is awesome, but it's intuitiveness is non-existent. The intuitive abilities of the human brain are awesome, but limited by available information.

Currently, the interface between man/machine remains at the barely glacial speed of physically typing, talking, and reading, and thus a huge chokepoint. The only way to remove this chokepoint, and fully access the computational speed and vast store of information on the internet, is with a direct link to the brain. I think the ability to download/upload and sift huge amounts of data at the speed of thought will be transformational for humanity. (Conversely, it could lead to analysis paralysis, but that's another topic.)

As part of this process, I don't think the computer will become any more "AI" than it is now, but will remain simply a super-library, still just an eminently accessible encyclopedia. Just a tool, like any other. After all, the only difference between Google and the Encyclopedia Britannica is really just of speed of access.

However, given what I think is the inevitability of a Neuralink type device, I'd sure rather see someone like Musk bring it to fruition than the likes of Bill Gates or Zuckerberg. It's not the corporations pushing advertising that worries me, what worries me is the propensity of the gov't assholes seizing yet another opportunity to intrude in a much more direct manner. Can you imagine the likes of Nancy Pelosi or Greta Whatshername in charge of what goes directly into your mind? No thanks.

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The major hurdle, imo, is the ick factor. There are very few people who are eager to have brain surgery so they can check their email more easily.

That might change, but then again, we still haven't seen wearable computing catch on.

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I don't know Neuralink's plans for their products, i.e. of which nature the brain-machine interface would be.

But I doubt we are going to transmit information to and from the consciouness that easily (if it is even possible in the end).

Maybe they plan to make the communication via the simulation of an auditory experience so you could hear without any sound being emitted, for example.

The transhumanists' plans are frigthening (because it shows their nature) but I doubt it will be easy. Time will tell.

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I tend to agree. Establishing a relatively small number of connections with the cortex is unlikely to magically lead to telepathy. In general, new technologies don't usually live up to either our dreams or our worst fears. Reality and practicality impose limitations we don't understand until we get to the point of application.

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Exactly, 1st issue: the connections to neurons to make something out of it seems impossible given their number and the fact that there is no real place to set up something between them (unless you're ready to have a 'Mars attacks' brain).

2nd issue: consciouness emergence *might* be a bit more complex than what we think we know. Is it totally something that relies on the "neural network"? I'm not sure there is a proof of that, maybe even the opposite (e.g. what we have learned from near-death experiences).

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Google Glass was a total failure.

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Utterly.

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I think Elon's position is that Neuralink is a "lesser of two evils" solution for allowing cybernetically-enhanced humans to keep up with runaway AGI. Given that demand for regulation/restriction of AI research is finally being taken somewhat seriously the need for that might not arise.

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AI "safety" is just an avenue for bioleninists to cripple pattern recognition technology by installing nanny filters. Runaway AGI is still highly speculative at this point. In any case, AI regulation is unlikely to work. The technology has already escaped into the wild.

That is indeed Elon's stated motivation for the Neuralink project, but whether it will be necessary for that is another question, as is the matter of whether it will ever catch on. Wearable computing has yet to go mainstream.

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I don't think so. The anti-racist nanny filters were being installed long before ChatGPT and Midjourney started freaking people out, and I know of several prominent DR figures who are frightened/appalled by current AI applications, either out of X-risk concerns or more reactionary reasons relating to human obsolescence and atomisation. It's quite possible the tech will need to be restricted at the hardware level, but at least public opinion is on the side of applying the brakes.

My main point, in any case, is that I don't think Elon would pursue brain interface technologies aggressively if unaligned AGI wasn't a looming concern.

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AI safety has been a thing for decades now, it's just that it only recently entered mainstream conservation. But the data scientist working on ML were thinking about this from the beginning, which in turn was the entry point for the woke to infiltrate the discipline.

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Don't mean to bring you down but this just isn't true, it's just media hype:

"You also have Scandinavia which is proving ever more intractable and keen to deal with its imported Jihad problem."

Migration to Sweden this year was in excess of 100 000, the majority from moslem nations.

People with citizenship cannot be thrown out, and revoking citizenship is borderline impossible under present laws.

Also, Denmark ruled to make burning the Quran a crime just a few days ago and Norway, Sweden and Finland can be expected to follow suit.

It would tale a true Autocrat using police and military and Stalin-esque terror-tactics to rid us of the moslem invasion.

And that would get us bombed by the US.

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Sweden will make Quran burning a crime, even with SD in power? Damn.

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I stand corrected, I was thinking of Finland and Norway where I've heard from friends that there's less and less patience and some gangs are pushing back against the Jihadists. But fair enough.

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There's a huge political swing to the right going on across Europe at the moment, but stemming the tide of refugees/migrants will require either dismantling or ignoring various EU/international treaties. That may take time.

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Very true

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Well said! Elon could become the good if he distanced and separated from some of his evil pet projects. Until he does, he's not all that good.

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Exactement mon point, there's too many who see Elon as a god. But he's a man who has claimed on twitter he'd love to debate (and beat in a debate) Jesus, he's the same guy who has jumped after Neuralink failed on chimps to wanting to try them on human beings. The guy also hates whites for being 'lazy' and needing 'sleep' instead of devoting all that they are to work(ing themselves to death for him).

The guy talks, breaths and acts like a WEF guy, therefore he must be. I'd argue that the failures of the WEF is not down to Musk being Superman but rather WEF incompetency and mismanagement (Elon included).

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Security through obscurity doesn't scale very well!

Like Tesla, Starlink, and especially SpaceX, almost none of their code or operations are open source.

NASA = Never a straight answer.

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I'm not sure I follow, what do you mean security through obscurity doesn't scale well? I'm not sure what NASA has to do with any of the points I made. My issue is with Neuralink, not Tesla, Starlink or SpaceX, I think they're fine companies and achieve interesting results. It is the brainchipping I'm suspicious of.

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Three more words.

Vendor lock in.

Sorry to be so cryptic, my time is limited and I'm not going to elaborate any further at this time.

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Argentinian alternative? You mean his first prominent guest was zelensky.... Praising about ukraine etc.

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Either Elon is not entirely in control of Twitter, or he is not quite the advocate for free speech that he claims to be.

I was recently banned for the _fourth_ time. Now they say I must grovel, admit I am a horrible person, and delete six tweets. Hey, before I was getting banned for just one at a time! How did I get up to six without getting banned?

I kinda know what they didn't like:

- I said that the majority of gay men were molested as boys, and that's why they're gay.

- I said that anti-white racism has morphed into full-on anti-semitism, but Jews never objected to it until it affected them.

- I called Leo Varadkar a faggot. That one got blocked instantly, and that was a while ago, so it's funny they're just getting around to me now.

Dunno what the others are, but similar stuff.

I'm tired of re-registering, so I'm really done with Twitter now.

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The Varadkar tweet was probably for the specific choice of language. I've been asked to reconsider before posting when using "retard".

Haven't gotten banned yet though, and I've certainly said things just as spicy.

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The truth is supposed to set you free, not get you tossed in X prison.

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Exactly.

Everything I said was factually true.

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Perhaps Twitter is inspired by swedish law? They did get to establish a server station for free here, many years ago and well before Musk bought Twitter.

For free meaning they were given exemptions from basically everything by the Socialist Democrat WEF-alumni led governement of the time, including free electricity and being classified a "skyddsobjekt"; "Object of special interest re: military security and secrecy".

And swedish law on slander, defamation, libel and our late laws make no allowance for factual truth of statements - it doesn't matter if it's ture or not, not one bit. All that matters if is the prosecutor can make credible to the one judge and his two, sometimes four, politicians making up the court that your remark was meant to hurt, belittle, dehumanise or otherwise incite negative emotions re: protected group.

The statement "Most african negros have lower IQs than askenazi jews" is a criminal offence - despite being demonstrably true and despite being used here only as an example of criminal statement.

I for real think Facebook and Twitter got inspired from here, because all the crap that's been happening the last 10-15 years re: freedom of speech and cancelling and so on?

We've had that since the late 1980s.

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Why do Swedish people put up with the absurd idea that truth can be slander?

I suspect it is almost entirely because of female voters.

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Most people don't even know or realise that how the law is applied and interpreted. It's like this (pulling numbers out of my . . . memory):

Out of 8mn swedes, about 60-70 percent get their news exclusively from state media and regime-loyal corporate media (virtually all papers are owned either by Shibsted Group or Bonniers), and those news are almost soviet-level curated - rarely any outright lies, just omissions of crucial facts or emphasising the narrative-important bits. For example, when several arabs, kurds and such with swedish citizenship were arrested in Spain for drugsmuggling and murders, state media et al reported "Three swedes arrested in Spain".

Furthermore, 80% of swedes live away from and outside migrant-controlled areas and it is rare for news media to report on those areas except from pointing out how it is due to "the racists" there are any problems at all (such as negros committing almost all gangrapes or arabs tossing their own daughters off of the balconies of high-rise buildings - "honour" killings). So most swedes have no personal experience with the troubles.

Plus high trust in authority and governement - because they used to be trustworthy when the majority of the swedish population grew up.

This taken together means people aren't so much putting up with it than simply being ignorant, and vigorously defending their ignorance. Think of your typical AFWL insisting Newsom is the greatest evah, and trying to get said AFWL to go look at the camps and tent-cities.

For once, female voters aren't to blame - the law wasn't intended to function like that originally.

And now, reporting facts that may negatively influence Sweden's standing and reputation among other nations has been made a crime.

To protect Our Democracy (if you haven't, check out Eugyppius latest masterpiece on the topic of Our Democracy).

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Irish here, burst out laughing bout Leo, it’s true! I’ve never posted or re-posted anything, but would have looked at a lot of freedom stuff and been banned for ages. I’ve done the ‘submit’ my please sir can I be here so many times but no joy, so I gave up too. I’m not a Muskie and ‘space’ I’m not holding my breath, sick of seeing those satellites ruining the night sky, well along with the manmade climate.

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Elon is in control although he lies about the freedom. This is the alternative way. Our 'alternative' government is exactly the same. Says what you want to hear but do the same as the left. It's a joke to expect mr dressing up as satan to fight the establishment.

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"I said that the majority of gay men were molested as boys, and that's why they're gay"

Do you have a source for this?

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I appreciate the links, but given that these cases are overwhelmingly post-pubescent teenagers I also don't think Larry Kramer's interpretation is implausible- it's entirely possible these are gay teens seeking out sexual contact with a group much less likely to turn them down than teenage, let alone adult, women would.

The heritability of sexual orientation is generally moderate-to-low according to twin studies, and I don't automatically discount the idea of social or even biological contagion being an explanatory factor here. But a lot of pro-family conservatives lean into the same kind of liberal-left mindset about children being innately innocent and early nurture and life experience being a suuuuper-critical factor in long-term personal development that simple correlational studies can't really demonstrate.

(For the record, I'm also not claiming that certain behaviours more common to the gay community aren't problematic- e.g, STD transmission, performatively flouting normative cultural standards of monogamy and procreation etc. etc. etc. But again, that's distinct from the underlying debate about causation.)

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I think the historical evidence also fits perfectly with the concept of male gayness as a social contagion, nothing innate. Note that there was no concept of "born that way" until modern times. There was only the well-known and ancient vice of sodomy.

Ancient Greek homosexuality was all about the age difference, in which an older man would "mentor" the younger. Because this was accepted, gayness became endemic and self-propagating there.

Ancient Jewish culture had the opposite view, and so sodomy did not spread there. And one could argue that the ancient Greek culture is now dead partly because of their tolerance for this vice which spreads disease so effectively, while Jewish culture continues.

Ultimately, men will fuck anything, including sheep and goats, but no one claims that beastiality is innate because that does not serve the political purpose of justifying a vice the way "born that way" does.

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And according to Herodotos, the greeks brought "boy-love" back with them from campaigning against the ancient persians.

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